Replace owners/stockholders equity with long-term points to replace money?

In this post, I explain how our moneyless system can make both Capitalism and Marxism obsolete.

It involves replacing owners equity or stockholders equity with long-term points payable.

Without outsiders equity, outsiders will no longer get a share of the revenue of the company. Moreover, bubbles and crashes will no longer happen since outsiders cannot buy or sell companies.

Capitalization will be done instead by debt, which uses the factor of time, instead of the factor of chance used by equity investments and trading.

Instead of the stock market, an economy will be grown by clearing funds which supply prepaid trade financing for both local production and exports.

I changed the title to manage the expectations of the readers here. Because when reading your post, you actually still use credit, so how does this replace money exactly? In your previous post this wasn’t clear either. And what do you do if people don’t want to switch to a different type of credit? What if they prefer things as they are? Or what if someone comes up short with their points, do they get a loan and pay interest? What about sustainability? Will this economy stimulate preservation? If so, how? By taxing/fine the poluters? How’s this any different than how we do things today?

TZM doesn’t want to force people to abandon money. It is made obsolete by the use of automation (and the other economic transitions). Once there aren’t enough jobs to sustain an income to purchase the goods and services provided by automation, it becomes pointless to use credits. That in combination that society hopefully realizes that an infinite growth economy is like a cancer and will kill us in the long run. And that we need to prioritize our ecology, we could transition towards a resource based economy. Of course it’s not that easy. It will be a bumpy road. But the more people are aware of alternatives that don’t destroy the planet and society, the higher the chance we will consider it.

Please read some more about our movement, so that you may understand our criticism.

My post is not in the form of a question.

Do you post “Is it possible for 1 + 1 = 2?”

No. We post with certainty that 1 + 1 = 2.

This is because the points system is the basis for taxation as well, and taxes are impossible to avoid.

Why do you always define money to be credit?

Money is a symbol that is accepted by all (multilateral).

Credit is belief in something. It is the root of ‘incredible’ and ‘creditable’.

So the points are a credit that you believe the other person has worth to be giving to (for donation points) or lending to (for investment points) or trading (for barter points) .

Money is not credit. Instead, it is something that is used as credit.

The points system is a system of assessing credit-worthiness, it is not a system of storing money or accumulating symbols.

Humans are free to stay with the money system and work for a job or wait for money payments and be stuck in recession and high money-prices

Or they can switch to a moneyless system where everyone is creditable, money is not essential, and prices are not so much affected by inflation (since money is not essential).

Our moneyless system will connect to the money system via clearing. The moneyless system is for resilience. The money system is for growth. What is lacking now is a resilient system that is inflation-proof and recession-proof.

In time, the points can be automated so that the credit-worthiness of all humans can be known. At this point, money would no longer needed. That final phase will start around the year 2400.

The moneyless system will stop global warming by starving the polluters of points.

The transition is easy. We were able to do it in a month for the people who believed in a moneyless system. So we use it for those few people.

The idea is to expand it a bit more just to make ourselves secure from the coming US economic crisis to prove that the system works for all aspects of a local economy.

Because for me and others it raises questions, it doesn’t answer them.

TZM proposes an economic solution where we may outgrow the need for credit and taxes.

Because it’s the same.

Starving people’s points if they misbehave in a system that also rewards it sounds like what we already have. It’s structural violence and will not solve anything. And what if you come up short with the points? You borrow points with interest? Then we’re back in a FIAT system.

It sounds to me you just replace words and hope things will turn out for the best, but at the core nothing changes.

What do other Zeitgeisters say about this? To me it seems unrelated to TZM and also doesn’t provide a viable solution worth discussing.

Credit is Latin for creditum which is “to believe” as in incredible and credible.

Money is Latin for moneta which is to mint or stamp a metal into a coin.

So it’s a stretch of imagination to equate coin with belief. The culprit is that the act of minting implies an existence of a government, and it is this government that the people have to believe in. And so minds stretch to connect: money → government → belief → credit

Can you tell me from which philosopher you got the idea that money = credit?

That is not the definition of Plato, Smith, Montesquieu, Ricardo, Sismondi, Marx, Keynes, nor Mill.

I assume you got it from Graeber. Credit theory of money - Wikipedia

The points system starves the evil people of points, so they have no choice but to go back to the money system where they will be at the mercy of inflation, recession, financial crisis, etc. This will cause their business to fail. They will have no choice but to get a job, and lose their freedom to work for other evil people who had more ‘animal spirits’ than them.

I already said that our system already works. It has saved a restaurant by replacing part of its money transactions with points-transactions at a time of inflation. This allowed it to get the customers of the nearby restaurant which had to close because of inflation starved it of cash.

Food service and food production (farming) are just a part of an economy. Our goal is to implement the points system for the entire economy, even foreign trade and taxation. So we haven’t tested it for those sectors yet and that is the part where questions can be raised.

I included a link to the English dictionary. But like I already suspected, you try to relabel words and then think it has a different outcome. I don’t see that as a solution. Especially on a global scale and all other issues we face which are rooted by an inefficient economy based on growth. You again praise structural violence as a solution without trying to solve the underlying issues.

Please learn more about TZM because you then might understand our criticism.

I’ll leave it up to the community to decide the fate of your future posts. Some community members already flagged it as off topic in the past. I wanted to give you a chance, but it seems that these topics are indeed off topic. In case future topics get flagged as such, then that’s a community moderation decision.

Edit: it has been flagged by community members again, closing this topic now.

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